Dearest Applicants,
As an officer of a raiding guild, I want to dedicate this post to all of you individuals who have applied to any raiding guild, and I think I speak for all officers when I say your written masterpieces are the finest in this virtual world of dragon-slaying. I want to sincerely thank you for making recruiting immensely easier. I think everyone can learn a thing or two from the experts of application-writing.
You’re right, of course, about WWS/WMO parses being an unnecessary requirement. My apologies to you for contradicting your claims of being a good player by asking for one. If you say you’re good, I should just automatically assume you are. And if I question your rotation, the obvious answer is the the “right rotation,” because everyone knows this most basic information. You are the best at your class, which should totally be obvious by your super-special purples as displayed in your armory.
I also should know better than to ask for dps numbers. Telling me you’re always top five in your current guild’s raids gives me a clear, accurate number of what sort of player you are, since, of course, I raid with you, right? And answering my request for a rough estimate of how much dps you do with “good dps” is also an universally acceptable answer.
You’re clearly the superior individual, so please make us aware of this from the beginning of your application. Insult my guild members and myself when we ask you questions regarding questionable talent builds, rotations, and itemization. You’re totally right! Since when do you have to actually be a walking encyclopedia to join a raiding guild? It’s just a video game, and you, sir, really need to put us in our places and tell us how it is. So if anyone asks you questions you can’t or don’t feel like answering, you are in your right to just call the guild bad or accuse people of living in basements.
Guild applications also aren’t English papers, so please don’t bother spending any time making sure you’ve spelled words correctly. In fact, while you’re at it, completely ignore the concept of punctuation. Language is an ever-evolving thing, and I’m clearly the bigger idiot for not realizing this. You’re applying to a raiding guild, after all, not to participate in a spelling bee. Who cares if your application is a giant wall of text comprised of incoherent babble? I can armory you, so it doesn’t really matter if I can understand you, after all.
It is also perfectly acceptable to not answer every question on an application. It’s not your fault we don’t make our applications in an easily-understandable, multiple choice format. In fact, just skip around and answer any questions that don’t require thought. For extra bonus points, just go through and answer any open-ended questions with “yes.”
Please ignore all the stickied threads that explain my guild’s raiding schedule, philosophies, expectations, and rules. You’re a pretty smart guy/gal since you’ve realized I wrote them just out of mere boredom, instead of for your benefit. In fact, after skipping over all threads, please consult me or another officer in game to ask about our schedules, recruiting needs, and progression, and preferably consult me during a raid. If you want to skip this step, just go ahead and apply but answer the “can you make our raids?” question with a written shrug or a “wat time do u raid” question of your own.
I should understand when you apply to other guilds besides mine. You’re testing the water, as you say, and you’re doing the smart thing by applying to as many guilds as possible. Feel free to stretch out the application process as long as possible, that way you can sort through which you were accepted to and rank them in order of preference. And if all those top 100 ranked guilds deny you, please get back to us as soon as possible. We totally want to be your last resort.
And last of all, who honestly cares if you put a lot of effort into your application or not? This is a video game, and if we can’t realize that, we need to go outside and see some sun, clearly. You’re not applying for an impressive job in real life, you’re applying to an internet guild with internet people killing internet bosses. We take ourselves way too seriously if we expect you to display a good attitude and a willingness to do everything you can to contribute to the overall success of your team’s progress. So instead, go join a less structured guild and cry when it falls apart, and then complain you can’t get into a good raiding guild. In fact, re-apply to us; we’ll understand!
Sincerely,
A Very Disgruntled Recruitment Officer
/edit/-> This post was intended to be a stab at something humorous, but sarcasm is sometimes misconstrued. If you are actually interested in constructive application tips, please read my guide here. Thanks!
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Though I’m not a recruitment officer, I feel your pain and suffering with every application I read. I think my favourite recent one was an answer to the question “How do you deal with disagreement?”
The applicant said “I disagree with them.”
shopshopshop’s last blog post..What? My Feet Are On Fire?
Oii…
“Do I smell sarcasm here?”
Nah, can´t be, this is Wordy Warrior aight?
He, hee
Usually I’d be groaning with the cascade of bad memories coming back from reading this, but I got the day off so it was worth a nice chuckle.
I feel your pain! I’m also handling recruitment a bit (bumping and making posts, made the read first, made the apply template,…). And it’s just horrible when people don’t fill in certain questions or act like total retards. Or I saw people copy pasting answers for questions like “What do you expect from us as a guild?”. And the thing that annoys me the most… They skip the random question! (like, “cake or pie?” question). Which is ofcourse a silly question but I made a very original one
SuicidalPriest’s last blog post..Ulduar Healing (Part 3)
Our guild lets anyone in, yes we still raid, I can just imagine what we would go through with an application process.
RJK’s last blog post..The Times of Prot Warriors…
I laughed so hard when i read this. Then my girlfriend(who used to handle guild recruitment). Took a look shook her head and said “Yup” and walked away…. She feels your pain.
Sarcasm sense tingling!
*snicker* I can so empathize.
Seri’s last blog post..Seri sez: Mount changes coming!
Odd – this is exactly what I was writing about today. Even after providing step by step instructions on how to post WWS/Screenshots – still get apps without them.
“Your application will be deleted if you don not include a link to WWS/WMO and a screenshot of your UI in combat”
/sigh
Here, here!
Though I love the post, I will point out that you’ll get at least one applicant who says “But I did everything you said a recruitment officer would want!!one”
Zet\'s last blog ..I Feel the Need for Low-Level speed!
I know I’ve posted this somewhere else before, but answering a question on the app with “i have no idea wut this means” is a very good way to get your application filed under “T”.
Also: if you make an un-obvious or non standard choice, defend it intelligently! Yes, there are cookies cutter spell roations and specs, but if you do something that works for you, and you can say/show why, I’ll consider you rather than laughing my butt off.
Just sayin’.
Oriniwen\'s last blog ..Hardcore or Not?
The greys in my hair come from a result of this.
@ Matticus
Yeah, recruitment is the quickest way to give me a headache. No grey hair yet, but it’s soon, I imagine!
Some of the applications were pretty funny >.>
We’ve had our fair share of interesting applicants that just made me leave a semi-permanent imprint of my palm over my face.
Had a guy, yeah, who applied as a warrior, had a paladin avatar, linked his armory to a paladin friend I know and a Wowhead warrior talent setup…
Normally, I tend to be rather polite in declining people but that time I just had to vent.
Gave the guild a good laugh, though.
All this did is make me want to create a mock app to Con Brio.
i feel your pain , but i agree with rhinjet how do i file a fake application to con brio
, link a good holy pally just forget that i am EU , answer all raid relevant questions with a firm and dedicated STRAWBERRY JAM , or maybe blueberry ……………hmmm blueberry muffins.
I’ll go out on a limb here and risk being a little too serious. Sarcasm, although I love it, is negative.
IMO, just ignore them and save both parties the unwanted stress.
In our guild, we’ve always had very casual applicant rules. Invite em, get to know em, explain they are here on a trial basis and if it doesnt work out, tell em. It’s worked fine for our guild. We raid high end content and rarely have guild drama.
The fact that YOU require such delicate details to play a game leads me to believe that your guild’s personality would NOT be for me.
Feight, this post was what you would call a joke. If I wanted to be negative, I’d just whine and rant a whole lot..
Furthermore, no, my type of guild nor many other types, aren’t fits for everyone. We run a pretty structured raiding guild with a tight-knit crew, and we keep things structured and everyone happy by making sure the people who join are right for us before they join. And to be fair, we have a huge disclaimer before you ever apply that says something along the lines of, “If you think our application process is too long, stop here, we’re not right for you.” On that note, though, my “rant” was based on the most basic application requirements in most successful 25-man raiding guilds. My guild’s specific requirements are based more on personality.
Yeah, I completly didn’t mean that as negative or as a flame. I came to my conclusion after looking at the general comments above and determining that most everyone who had a hand in recruitment was stressed. My final point would be that if you’re getting stressed over it, then you’re doing it wrong.
I suppose our guild recruitment would be on the opposite end of the spectrum compared to yours. For us, we are a casual guild (meaning socially casual) yet we manage to accomplish high end raid content with no problems. We, just like you, value personality over all and feel that the best way to get to know someone is through active participation.
We’ve recruited a lot of great members by offering our members a gold pay out for recruiting good members (1kG for a member with a guild score over 2k that raids for 3 weeks). Those members are the ones i love the most!! They are pre trained and enter the guild knowing fully what to expect. Another good tool we’ve used are PUG raids. We run 25 naxx or EOE with our ulduar geared members (so there is plenty of room for a few fail players, plus you can gear alts, etc..) If you make a great impression and the player is good, then you will generally net 1 – 2 good raiders each time.
To me, the entire application process (not pointing fingers at anyone) has a certain after-taste liken to arrogance. Yet, I understand that this is my viewpoint and many (many) others don’t necessarily share this sentiment.
Love the blog Ariedan!
gear score, not guild score, sigh….
Oh no, it’s okay- I didn’t really see it so much as a flame, just a disagreement.
The thing about applications is that it’s not for everyone. It doesn’t make you a bad player, or a guild a bad guild, if you don’t like ‘em. It’s certainly not the only way to ensure you invite solid players and great people to your guild, as your guild is proof, but it’s certainly the most proven and trouble-free way. My guild has very little recruitment turn-over, and most people always pass their trial. Because, honestly, our application pretty much is our trial. Different people, different methods! It’s what works for YOU.
As far as the “stress” goes, it’s not really stress. It’s more or less minor irritations that I find more humorous than stressful. People who don’t spend a lot of time on their applications, be it my guild or any other, has always been just a pet peeve of mine.
Either way, this post again was meant to be a joke. If it bothered me that badly, I wouldn’t be running a guild.
So, seriously, what times do you raid?
Haha. Great post. I’m not an officer, but I’ve been through a few recruitment processes myself, for both serious and casual guilds.
Casual guilds have the best recruitment ever:
Are you an asshole?
Uh, no?
Cakeseckz HAS INVITED YOU TO JOIN
I do like the fact that even though I did get one-shotted by Razorscale in 25M during my trial period, they still let me join my current guild. And yes, I was an OT.
I agree with everything here except:
“I should understand when you apply to other guilds besides mine.”
I don’t get why WoW guilds expect a level of dedication that isn’t given to universities, graduate schools, and real-life jobs. Yes, officers SHOULD understand when someone applies to more than one guild. Applying to a guild, especially a more hardcore one, is a time-consuming, involved process, and it’s ridiculously egotistical to expect someone to pretend no other guilds exist when they’re applying to yours.
[...] new online games store. HOME | STORE | BUY GAMES Sun 14 Jun How not to apply to a guild The Wordy Warrior covers a well-traveled subject in an interesting way in her latest post. We’ve already talked [...]
We’ve had two applicants to our casual raiding guild who have answered the question “Did you look at previous successful applications? Did you learn anything from them?” with “No, I didn’t, because I want my answers to be true to myself!” … *facedesk* This makes me crazy. We’re trying to HELP people learn how to write a good app, and they still fail and claim that they’re just special enough to not have to put in the effort. Needless to say, we didn’t take either of them. (Note: They’re from the same guild, and we’re starting to think that place just breeds them this way.)
It’s not just applying to mine. It’s the whole process of us taking time to read the application, discuss it, interview the person, and then accept him, only for him to stall and then say, “Sorry, I was waiting to see if the other guild would accept me before you, but they denied me so it’s all good.”
I don’t care if you apply to a couple, but don’t go through the whole entire process just to waste our time.
I recently merged my raiding guild with another raiding guild on my server to better fill raid slots, so as of late recruitment hasn’t really been an issue/priority.
However..
About a week before the merger, during which we were still recieving applications, I recieved one that did indeed stand out from the rest. It was hillarious to read an app from a t7.5 warrior, with glowing experience and ability, conclude his app with the following phrase:
“Oh yeah, and both my parents are GM’s–;)”
With all the crap-flak-app’s I get, it was nice to read one that made me laugh instead of making me embed my keyboard into the dry wall.
From one raiding guild Officer to another: First round’s on me, brother.
@ Korall
/toast
From a former recruitment/PR/chief cook-and-bottlewasher of a guild, I feel your pain, loved the post, and have to say – it’s just as hard for non-raiders that have involved apps. If you want some fun crazies, talk to anyone that’s been in charge of a guild that roleplays.
Nice to know we aren’t alone out there, prying our heads out of that permanent dent in our desks.
I’m actually curious…please note, this is not meant as sarcasm. I would actually like to know what advice, if any, you’d give to someone in the following situation.
The guild they’re in, is terrible. This may be, quite likely, why they’re in the market for a guild in the first place. Healers abysmal, tanks putting out awful tps. Et cetera. As such, they find it extremely hard to produce a favorable wws report. Frequent death, perhaps the healers have a “sod you” mentality towards melee in fights where melee dps taking damage is unavoidable…whatever the reason, generating a good report is just proving extremely difficult. Their gear choices and UI display a good understanding of the mechanics of their class (insomuch as such things can), but they find themselves trying to find a way to prove themselves to potential raiding guilds.
This situation can end up like the classic job experience paradox. To get accepted to a successful raiding guild, you need documented creds. To get those, you need to…be in a successful (or at least competant) raiding guild.
For the person with their head screwed on straight and committed to knowing their role but having a hard time finding a forum to prove themselves, what would you recommend?
Kay, in my guild at least, WMO/WWS parses aren’t required but just preferred. The majority of the people we have accepted didn’t have any parses available, but those people also went above and beyond to prove they had a clear understanding of their classes. To be fair, even knowing the theorycraft behind a class and what order to press buttons in doesn’t always make a good player. Parses show people how you respond to movement fights, how good or bad your situational awareness is, and if you go above and beyond expectations of your role (enhance shamans throwing a heal with maelstrom procs, for example).
In my guild, along with most others, we’re not hurting for players. In situations like that, while WWS/WMO parses aren’t necessarily required, without some sort of factual evidence that you will be exceptional, we’re a lot less inclined to give someone a chance based on armory and written application alone. In a guild that doesn’t recruit for bench, it’s just really hard to justify recruiting a player that may or may not be a fit for you. For some guilds, that’s what the trial period is for, but in my guild, our application process pretty much is the trial period.
With that said, even if your guild doesn’t use combat logging tools, it’s very simple to do it on your own. In that scenario, some guilds will expect you just parse something yourself, even if it’s just a PUG VoA or five-man. My guild certainly isn’t that hardcore, although admittedly, I will give most people a chance when they go above and beyond expectations like that.
If you understand your class and role, you can still get by without having a parse, except with the most hardcore guilds. But you should be prepared to elaborate on your class knowledge and defend said knowledge to prove it, or it’s a moot point.
Can I have your babies?
Matthew, you might have to have a fight to the death with Moskau for that to be at all possible.
I hear you. I’ve seen solid raiders fail miserably at applying. We just declined someone who I knew from a previous guild for both knowing his class inside and out and putting out better dps than the current members of guild in that class. His application could have been a test book example of your Open Letter. At the end of the day, even knowing what he could bring, I couldn’t justify to myself bringing him in….and told him.
It took a couple of days, but then he logged on an alt and said “You know, people are nicer to me when they don’t know who I am.” “I think I’ve let my short temper color how people see me.”
I’m in a guild that’s progressing nicely in uludar and I have no idea what WMO/WWS parses are. :p
As a member of a casual guild, we tend to accept all applications as everyone deserves a fair chance, right? However, I guess the officers appreciate it when some effort is given though this isn’t always the case. My favourite example by far being:
“Hi im [charname]…
can i plz join your guild ?? im lvl 80 tank with 25k hp??”
Well, you do sound a catch /application_approved_stamp_noise
Thanks for that! I needed a good read and laugh. I’m a new reader to your site and I’ll definitely be back.
Cheers,
Bigal
We have a nice little feature we started on our forums for the Hall of Shame where we file away some of the worst apps that have ever managed to be filled out. I seriously wonder some times if people are just joking around, or if they think that we would actually even consider half of the apps we get.
@Tongari: We have a similar thing where we have a “how not to apply” post in the recruitment forum. It’s from BC, so it had questions about Black Temple and shadow resist and stuff. Unfortunately, a few people applying to us recently have used that form. It’s pretty fail.
shopshopshop’s last blog ..On Changes and Bitterness
Love it
If I actually played on Doomhammer-US I’d love the chance to raid with you fine folks
This is so full of win.
My favorites where the whole application is blank except for the last one which read “Have you ever been removed from a guild and, if so, what was the reason?”
A: no
/headdesk
Ailis’s last blog ..Ulduar: Defiance
Now that was funny! I ran a guild for several years myself so believe me when I say the sarcasm was not wasted on me
I hope you end up in LoD, I like you already!
ArchDruid Angela’s last blog ..Some PVP Macros
This reminded of this gem we had recently:
“If given the choice between progression and loot, which would you choose? Why? progression because i want to look good”
I want to look good too!